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Fischer RC4 Progressor, 175CM


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#1 Gary Dranow

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 06:01 PM

Describe yourself:

Height: 6’0”
Weight: 205#
Age:53
Gender:Male

Skiing performance level:
Master Racer, Platinum NASTAR, NASTAR National Champion, 2008 IMD Men's 6 Bib Leader, USSA Certified Coach

Preferred ski terrain:
Groomed, varying terrain/pitch
Current most preferred ski or skis:
Fischer 175cm Progressors
Fischer 165cm RC4 WC Slalom
Fischer 188cm RC4 WC GS
Rossignol 209 SuperG, Radical World Cup (2007)
Rossignol 215 DownHill, (2007)
Rossignol 193 WC GS , Race Stock (2006)
Rossignol 165 Radical WC Slalom (2007)

Ski description:
Dual radius all mountain carver, recreational dual purpose racing ski

Ski brand: Fischer
Ski model: Progressor
Length: 175CM
Brand and model of ski binding on ski: Fischer Z13FF set on 12

Is there a riser or dampening plate? Yes / No
What is this ski designed for? All Mountain Off Piste/Extreme Recreational Racing Racing
If Racing what Discipline: NASTAR, GS, Slalom
Do you own this ski or is it a demo? Own
Was the ski recently tuned or waxed? Yes, by Jeff Butz, Podium Ski Service, .7/3, Holmenkol Beta/Ultra 1/1

Ski performance: All surfaces

Short radius turns: Excellent, good, fair, poor.
Medium radius turns: Excellent, good, fair, poor.
Long radius turns: Excellent, good, fair, poor.
Comments: The only ski I’ve skied where I can pull down or increase the radius from 12 to 20 effortlessly from turn to turn.  EXTREMELY STABLE SKI for a 175cm.  Have not yet skied on hard snow, this is only a packed powder, 3 day old snow, warming temps so very egdeable, not overly soft, no loose snow or mounds.  Low rutting coefficient.
Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best): 5

Does the ski have good slow speed turn initiation? Yes / No
Does the ski respond better at high speeds? Yes / No, just as well
Does the ski have good high speed stability? Yes / No
Does the ski feel damp or lively? Quite lively, great power out of the release from 14 – 20 Meter turns.   The ski, however, is not jittery or hooky at all.
Does the ski feel heavy or light? Substantial but light

Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best): 5
Comments:

Hard snow performance: if applicable

Does the ski provide adequate edge grip? entry, apex, finish? Yes / No
Is there any chatter? Yes / No
Does it inspire confidence on hard snow? Yes / No
Does the ski require extra pressure or is it effortless? Yes / No
Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best):
Comments:
N/A



Soft snow performance: if applicable

Does the ski float or dive? With the 117 tip the ski can float or dive. Did not get in powder however, just some 6” crud.  Needs more testing.
Does the ski cut through broken powder or does it get deflected?
Cut through nicely, very stable, 70 under foot helps the ski build a platform, 100 tail makes termination quite effortless.
Does it handle crud? Yes / No
Is the ride work or effortless? Either, your choice, quite a substantial plate, get on it the ski reacts, cruise it’s very docile.
Does it inspire confidence? Yes / No
Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best): 5
Comments:  The ski does exactly what it’s advertised to do.  Vary radius, cruise it or jump on it, either way you get what you ask for.  The ski does ask you to “Rocker” a bit until you get to know it, skiing the whole ski from sweet spot works great, patience at top 1/3, tail kicks in and the radius relaxes, stay with the turn, hip forward and, higher early edge angle the shovels keep working down the radius.  Truly an amazing skiing experience in today’s snow conditions.  I had total confidence at 20 or 40MPH, in the fall line or 60 plus Fall Line angle, ski responds appropriately.  A great ski for a intermediate racer to a very aggressive high level racer for an all around carving play ski.  I will test the Progressors head to head against my 175 R-11’s and my 184 Radical WC (My NASTAR FIS Ski) on both soft and hard snow this season. From today’s test the R-11’s are damper, more of a one trick pony, really no comparison.  Will wait until I’m 80% or better to get the most out of all skis, should be an interesting test.


Racing performance: if applicable

Does the ski initiate turns quickly? slowly? Optional, mine
Is the ski quick from edge to edge? Yes / No
Stable at high speeds, or erratic? Exceptionally Stable for a 175
Does the ski chatter? or is it smooth? N/A, no Ice today
Does the ski exit turns with ease? or with effort? Very easy release with the 100MM Tail.
Does the ski handle ruts well? N/A, no ruts today
Do you feel confident on this ski? or tentative? Extreme confidence, shocking
Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best): 5
Comments:
Simply the best recreational or “Cheater” ski I’ve ever been on.  Want to try this on CB’s for grins.  I think I’ll be surprised as long as the radius doesn’t get over 20-25 M.  I believe this IS the best NASTAR all around ski I’ve skied to date.  More testing required in all conditions but as of right now, that is my review.  Will update as the season progresses.  This ski will be super for most Eastern NASTAR Venues with very aggressive plate, very good torsional stiffness and very round but skier variable radius.

Gate Test, First 3 runs on ski, first NASTAR of the year, Ankle Injury

Would you recommend this ski to fellow skiers?
Absolutely, without question, no reservations whatsoever.  A great starter Masters ski, a very good all-in-one race ski for the single ski quiver racer and a NASTAR killer.

What did you like most? the least?
There absolutely nothing I don’t like about the ski.  Again, took 1 run to find the center and not work tip to tail, which is not necessary to get the ski to perform at its best. What I like the most if that this ski has multiple personalities, just like me, a perfect fit.

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#2 Rob

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 05:45 PM

after talking to brent and gary i bought a pair of the 175 progressors, woooowww, what a ski, after a few days of working on what the ski wants which is staying on center or forward of center this ski is blast to ride, roll them over and hang on. you can roll this ski over to 90* to the snow and they track, where they really shined was in the crud, much better than a full pop race ski. these babies eat up nastar courses, race skis where getting me down in the 8-9 hc, on the progressors i was down in the 4.5-5 hc. i was going for 3-4 range and had a bad crash ending up with a broken collar bone, can't remember exactly what happened, the bell was rung pretty bad, but i think i hooked a tip on a gate. i would highly recommend the progressor to any aggressive racer looking for nastar type race ski and all mountain ski, as gary calls it, a single quiver race ski. since i started with the progressors i have not been on my race skis, i now have several pair for sale. as i am now on vicodin please excuse my grammar and spelling.

#3 Rob

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 06:03 PM

QUOTE (Rob @ Feb 3 2008, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
after talking to brent and gary i bought a pair of the 175 progressors, woooowww, what a ski, after a few days of working on what the ski wants which is staying on center or forward of center this ski is blast to ride, roll them over and hang on. you can roll this ski over to 90* to the snow and they track, where they really shined was in the crud, much better than a full pop race ski. these babies eat up nastar courses, race skis where getting me down in the 8-9 hc, on the progressors i was down in the 4.5-5 hc. i was going for 3-4 range and had a bad crash ending up with a broken collar bone, can't remember exactly what happened, the bell was rung pretty bad, but i think i hooked a tip on a gate. i would highly recommend the progressor to any aggressive racer looking for nastar type race ski and all mountain ski, as gary calls it, a single quiver race ski. since i started with the progressors i have not been on my race skis, i now have several pair for sale. as i am now on vicodin please excuse my grammar and spelling.

    yes, i did have a helmet on, it did protect the little bit i have left.

#4 Gary Dranow

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 06:14 PM

QUOTE (Rob @ Feb 3 2008, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
after talking to brent and gary i bought a pair of the 175 progressors, woooowww, what a ski, after a few days of working on what the ski wants which is staying on center or forward of center this ski is blast to ride, roll them over and hang on. you can roll this ski over to 90* to the snow and they track, where they really shined was in the crud, much better than a full pop race ski. these babies eat up nastar courses, race skis where getting me down in the 8-9 hc, on the progressors i was down in the 4.5-5 hc. i was going for 3-4 range and had a bad crash ending up with a broken collar bone, can't remember exactly what happened, the bell was rung pretty bad, but i think i hooked a tip on a gate. i would highly recommend the progressor to any aggressive racer looking for nastar type race ski and all mountain ski, as gary calls it, a single quiver race ski. since i started with the progressors i have not been on my race skis, i now have several pair for sale. as i am now on vicodin please excuse my grammar and spelling.


Sorry about your injury, we wish you the fastest possible
recovery!

Lortab 10s, yup, the stuff the keeps older ahtletes with broken
bones and torn ligaments performing (if a high tolerance
is present).  As we used to have in our signature (we are
not advocating the use of Narcotics - unless absolutely
necessary and doctor prescribed, real doctors, caring
doctors, not pill pusher doctors).

Melior Victus Per Venenum!

Heal quickly, don't get chronic (you know of what I speak),
and get a pair of 180s to fill out your quiver (for bigger hills),
mine are on the way wink.gif

If I can get healed and healthy I'm going to try to make
the NASTAR Nationals with my 2 ski quiver (175 and
180cm RC4 Progressor 9)  thumbsup.gif

We are going to be at WWSRA Ski Demo at Snowbasin
this coming Tuesday (tomorrow will be snowed out), we
are hoping they'll have the new Progressor 8 and 7 to Demo!  

Glad we could steer you right and help you get "The Kind
Ski!!"

Best wishes,

The MSR Team

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#5 songfta

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 02:28 PM

I've tested the 170s and 175s on East Coast boilerplate at Stowe, VT, and they're like ice skates on the stuff.  

I won't completely parrot Gary's entry - I'll merely fill in where different.

Height: 6’4”
Weight: 200
Age: 34
Gender: Male

Skiing performance level:
Former FIS and USSA racer (IMD), former college racer and coach (USCSA).

Preferred ski terrain:
Groomed, varying terrain/pitch; off-piste: trees, chutes, cornices in steep conditions; variable snow.

Current most preferred ski or skis:
Head Supershape Magnum 177cm
Fischer RC4 Progressor 175cm
Blizzard Sigma SLR 170cm
Atomic SL:12 170cm
Atomic GS:11 183cm
Atomic SX:11 180cm
Head SuperShape 170cm
Dynastar Contact 11

Ski brand:  Fischer
Ski model: Progressor
Length: 175cm
Brand and model of ski binding on ski: Fischer Z13FF set on 10

Do you own this ski or is it a demo? Demo
Was the ski recently tuned or waxed? Yes, by me, 0.5/3.0, Toko Diblock

Short radius turns: Excellent, good, fair, poor.
Medium radius turns: Excellent, good, fair, poor.
Long radius turns: Excellent, good, fair, poor.

Comments:
As others have said, you need to be forward/center to get proper engagement with the sidecut, but they really make such conditions very easy to handle.  As is the case with softer snow, the turn radius can be changed up with ease, and without sacrificing any edge holding qualities.  Extreme edge angles are handled with ease, as there is a decent amount of lift underfoot.

Does the ski have good slow speed turn initiation? Yes
Does the ski respond better at high speeds? Same
Does the ski have good high speed stability? Yes
Does the ski feel damp or lively? Lively, though with typical Austrian heft and stability.  It isn't as jumpy as many lighter skis are, but has a very positive edge initiation and release.
Does the ski feel heavy or light? Hefty, but lighter than expected.
Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best): 5
Comments:
If I were coaching again, this would be my ski of choice for teaching almost everything, save for slalom (at least in the 175cm length).  It has a lot of upside in being equally happy with initiating turns at both low and high speeds.

Hard snow performance:

Does the ski provide adequate edge grip? entry, apex, finish? Yes
Is there any chatter? No
Does it inspire confidence on hard snow? Yes
Does the ski require extra pressure or is it effortless? Depends on whether you decide to change the turn radius mid-shift, but such a move doesn't require a lot of extra effort.
Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best): 5
Comments:
This is possibly the best beer league/NASTAR ski I've ever tried.  It's so solid on hard snow, the confidence it inspires is similar to full race room/race stock, but a little less punishing if one's attention wavers.


Soft snow performance:

Does the ski float or dive? Tested in 6-9" of light (for the east) powder over a soft base, and it did remarkably well.  Float is very good for a ski with such a narrow waist, but it holds its own.  I'd like to try it out west to compare.
Does the ski cut through broken powder or does it get deflected? Tracks true, doesn't get fazed by heavier snow pockets, and the wide tail ensures a stable platform behind.
Does it handle crud? Yes
Is the ride work or effortless? Depends on what your goal is: it'll respond to working the length, or to simply going along for the ride.
Does it inspire confidence? Yes
Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best): 5
Comments:
Simply put: versatile!  This ski can really do it all.  On an intermediate, it won't buck them like specialty race skis, and will allow an easy progression to better skills.  On an expert, it's a true one-ski-quiver for the east, and a dynamo in most NASTAR-style sets.  And if you want to take it in the trees, bumps, or other crazy places, it's happy to oblige.

Racing performance:

Does the ski initiate turns quickly? slowly? Both?  Depends on the desired outcome.
Is the ski quick from edge to edge? Yes
Stable at high speeds, or erratic? Stable for its length.
Does the ski chatter? or is it smooth? Smooth on the boilerplate
Does the ski exit turns with ease? or with effort? Easily.
Does the ski handle ruts well? Yes.
Do you feel confident on this ski? or tentative? Confident to the point of cockiness.
Rate this section 1 - 5 (5 being best): 5
Comments:
As Gary wrote: "This ski will be super for most Eastern NASTAR Venues with very aggressive plate, very good torsional stiffness and very round but skier variable radius."  I concur completely.  It's really the best thing out there for east coast NASTAR and beer league racing.  It's stable, fast, and adaptable.  

Would you recommend this ski to fellow skiers? Yes, without reservation - especially to NASTAR and beer league racers who want a pair of skis that won't flinch under pressure, yet won't punish over the long-haul.

Edit (Feb 22, 2008): I ended up pulling the trigger on a pair of Head Supershape Magnums in a 177 after further testing.  I couldn't get the 180cm in a Progressor, and the Heads were every bit as good.

Edited by songfta, 22 February 2008 - 12:44 PM.


#6 Rob

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 07:12 AM

Gary, how did the Ficsher Progressors work at the Boat in the Nat's courses,  what length did you go with? Would have preferred a different ski? Rob Grant Morriston Fl

#7 Gary Dranow

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:02 AM

QUOTE (Rob @ Mar 18 2008, 07:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gary, how did the Ficsher Progressors work at the Boat in the Nat's courses,  what length did you go with? Would have preferred a different ski? Rob Grant Morriston Fl


In the OR prep on my Iphone, short answer, loved 'em, 180's more after surgery...

Ahhhh, just had my nerve block, going in..,

Left about a half second on the hill both days from mistakes, ski had plenty in it wink.gif

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#8 Rob

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 04:13 AM

Gary, I am sorry for the ski question, I did not know surgery was a go. You have more important matters. I trust you will have a speedy recovery. Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rob

#9 Gary Dranow

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 07:00 AM

QUOTE (Rob @ Mar 19 2008, 05:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gary, I am sorry for the ski question, I did not know surgery was a go. You have more important matters. I trust you will have a speedy recovery. Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rob


Sorry, why??  What else am I going to do in here  huh.gif

I'll be on my Iphone most of the day, got any specfic questions on the skis, hill, snow, how I managed to lose  rolleyes.gif

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#10 Rob

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 03:14 PM

Okay, sounds like things went well with the surgeon, give us a report on the Progressors. How did they work at the Nat's? Where the courses tight or loose per Masters standards? Why did HC's go up on Saturday pretty well across the board?  Gary, just give us a Nat's report. Rob

#11 Dr. Liz

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 04:52 PM

QUOTE (Rob @ Mar 19 2008, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Okay, sounds like things went well with the surgeon, give us a report on the Progressors. How did they work at the Nat's?


Dr. Liz here.  I'll get a post up on the surgery soon.  Lots of really cool 'scope' pictures (including one that the surgeon is just DYING to see end up in a text book...), as well as 'scenery' shots (so to speak). He's still in the hospital, and is having a bit of a rough ride (and only has his iPhone, so posting is a bit tough for him). But in the meantime, I'll answer the questions as best I can - I'm sure Gary will come along and correct me where I'm wrong.  

First, he and I both skied the Progressors (me on a 170, and him on his 180s and one run on his 175s).  Both of us are in full agreement that the Progressors just kicked it over an FIS legal race ski.  No comparison.  There were a number of people on 'cheater' (i.e. not full-blown FIS) skis, and while I didn't ski any of those skis, the other two women in my class (an ex-US Ski Team downhiller, and a former elite level figure skater) were both talking about their 175-180cm 'cheater' skis after the second day, and were both really wishing that they had 'more versatile' skis.  I, of course, jumped right in and suggested the Progressors, and both were actually quite interested in the ski, from both the ski construction and performance points of view.)  I actually talked to several other people on the chairlift who were equally interested in the ski.

Anyhoo...  Back to how they worked.  We did a half-day of training Thursday before the races, and it was the first time that we had skied truly firm snow all season.  Gary was on his 175s (I skied my slalom skis, as I only had 1 pair of Progressors, and wanted to keep them in good shape for the races), and he was thrilled with how well they held.  Given the course set, he decided that even in a fairly tight course, he could ski the 180s without problems.

On Friday, we had about 3 inches of new snow, and firm snow underneath.  Gary was one of the first 10 people in his course to run, and given that most of the people slipping the course were slipping the 'fantasy line', there were birms in the actual line, and soft snow in the actual transition sections. (Although, it must be said that there were course workers who came through and slipped things out before each run, so it wasn't as much of an issue as it could have been.)  Gary was happy to report that the skis just punched through the soft stuff without changing their hold/performance in any way.  He was a little less happy to had lost his pole on the first run, but that's racing.  And I've got to concur with Gary's opinion in the variable snow (although since I ran later on my course, and was down to the firm snow); the skis were fantastic.  He ran his second run on the 180s, as well, and despite a bit of a bobble in the course, he again confirmed that the skis were definitely THE ski for the course.

Saturday saw sunny skis, and firm conditions.  We did a warm-up run on one of the steeper runs (Gary on his 180s) and the skis were just brilliant.  The only issue on Saturday (non-ski related) was that they did NOT flip the courses (on Friday, the odd numbers ran yellow first .... surprisingly on Saturday, the odd numbers ran yellow again....), and we (both Gary and myself) inspected the wrong course.  Bummer.  Gary ran his 180s on the first course, and since he was skiing blind (so to speak), and the two courses were NOT similar, he got caught 4 gates from the end.  But, the skis were stable enough to allow him to make some very athletic moves to stay in the course.  On the second run, he switched to the 175s, and while he skied them well, he certainly felt that the 180s would have been just as good; there were no issues with stability or edge-to-edge transitions; the skis were quick yet stable.

So?  The final review on the Progressors at Nationals?  ABSOLUTELY THE SKIS.    Good for open courses, and good for tight courses.  You could not look for a single better Nastar ski, at any level.

QUOTE
Where the courses tight or loose per Masters standards?


Tight.  23+m skis would have had a tough time, especially on Gary's course; he had a tight set both days (tighter on Saturday than Friday), and a lot of challenging terrain changes.   A lot of offset, and not as much vertical distance as a typical Master's course.  My course lacked the terrain changes (for the most part....), but was probably even a bit tighter set than Gary's course.    If you weren't on your toes (or the fronts of your boots!), the courses came at your faster and faster!

QUOTE
Why did HC's go up on Saturday pretty well across the board?


In my humble opinion, I think the courses were set tighter, and (my courses, at least) and employed a lot more of the terrain 'challenges'.    Also, the snow didn't hold up as well (fr'instance, my 2nd course on Saturday had big holes in it), making for tougher second runs.

As for the full Nationals report, I'm working on it, and it will be up in the 'Not a Member?' section.

Dr. Liz

#12 Rob

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 03:17 AM

Thank you Dr Liz for the report, wish Gary a speedy recovery from all of us, the next week is going to be a tough haul for him but he will come through it. I will look for your full Hat's report. Take care of Gary, he will need your support the next few days.

#13 DPHIL

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 04:20 PM

I'm another fan of the Progressor.  I won the Men's 60-64 Silver division gold medal on 175 cm Progressor's. Thanks Brent for procuring them for me. Also, thanks Gary and the MSR team for the great race clinic at Wolf Mtn.  Gary, hope your ankle heals quickly. See you next ski season.

Year End Standings

#14 Gary Dranow

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 05:22 PM

Congratulations David!

Your performance puts you right up front
in our 2008 MVT (Most Valuable Teammate)
Award.

The committee meets on Monday.  A pair of
Amsbury buffed out race boots may be in the
offing wink.gif

Another one of our campers, Laurel Moyes, in
her first Nationals ever takes the Silver on
See Ya, tough hill, tough competition and she
pulls it out.

Flip a coin or you both get it, hmmmm ....

Good problem to have.  Great Job to everyone
who made it to the "Big Show"!

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#15 Rob

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 04:25 AM

Dr Liz gave us a good report on the Nat's, when you feel up to it we await your edition.
Rob

#16 DPHIL

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:34 AM

QUOTE (Gary Dranow @ Mar 22 2008, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Congratulations David!

Your performance puts you right up front
in our 2008 MVT (Most Valuable Teammate)
Award.

The committee meets on Monday.  A pair of
Amsbury buffed out race boots may be in the
offing wink.gif

Another one of our campers, Laurel Moyes, in
her first Nationals ever takes the Silver on
See Ya, tough hill, tough competition and she
pulls it out.

Flip a coin or you both get it, hmmmm ....

Good problem to have.  Great Job to everyone
who made it to the "Big Show"!

Wow, thanks for the MVT consideration.  biggrin.gif

#17 Gary Dranow

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 08:26 AM

QUOTE (Rob @ Mar 23 2008, 04:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dr Liz gave us a good report on the Nat's, when you feel up to it we await your edition.
Rob


Yup, yup.  I know I sound like a broken record, but
there's still plenty of fuzz on the 'ole brain (pounding
the Oxycontin).  The ankle is still screaming at me.

I'll try to start catching up a little later today.  I'm putting
up a review of Steamboat Nationals Venue, I'll make most
of my comments there.

Then I've got a MA to do and get a piece done on starts.

I'll review Liz's post above and see if there's anything I
need to add, looks like she nailed it though.

Lots to do, no rest for the weary around here  biggrin.gif

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#18 Gary Dranow

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 03:21 PM

As promised here's my report on the Progressors and how
they handled the courses, at least for me, at the NASTAR
Championships.

My course was See Me.  This is the pitch just below and to
the skier's left of Sitz.  I NOT was there last year but from
two years ago it seems they moved the start down quite
a bit and we ended up with a true NASTAR 20 something
second par time course (late 19s on the first day for Phil).

The snow on training day was as hard snow as I've skied
on in the last 20 years.  Remember that I took 12 years
off from 1989 or so to returning to ski racing in Park City
the 2001/2002 season.

I've got to say I really enjoy, actually much prefer hard
snow for racing than the soft stuff we've seen for the last
7 years on the IMD Masters circuit and at the previous
NASTAR Championships at both PCMR and Steamboat
our first year there, 2006.

HQ's decision to push the championships up about 2
weeks paid off with excellent racing snow.

As luck would have it, however, a storm front came
through late Thursday afternoon and into early Friday
morning leaving about 4 - 6 inches of new snow sitting
on top of our hard racing snow.

I immediately knew that my first male on the course,
about the 7th seed on course in the Yellow, was going to
be no advantage at all.  It was going to be a considerable
disadvantage, especially with the bulk of the racers slipping
the "Fantasy" line putting mounds right at the rise line
for most every turn.  I wasn't pleased but handled it
more relaxed than I would have in years past.  I figured it
would be about the same for all the Platinum men so it
is what is was, no worries.  

Just before our start I witnessed one of the big improvements
that the Steamboat crew made from 2006.  They had a
good size crew go down and slip the real line knocking down
enough of the fluff that course ended up being much more
skiable than I had anticipated.

On my first run, it got a rough at the bottom with some berms
right at my transition point, got jostled pretty hard on a left
footed turn about 6 or 7 gates from the end and my left pole
was knocked out of my hand.  I made one attempt at getting
it back in my hand then just grabbed my bully with the pole
flopping at my side and completed my run.  

Based on the set, which I would estimate at about 21 - 23m
with a 3m or so offset, I elected to use my 180s.  I believe it
was the right call.

The skis worked great and without question there was more in
the ski than I used on that first run.

I was too round on the top and generally the whole course.  With
how the ski was holding I could have taken a more direct line
and I'm figuring I left about 1 second on the hill had I pulled
one of my good typical runs.  Line mistake aside, I'd estimate
the pole thing cost me .250, that's it, not that much.  More
of distraction and momentary hiccup than a major mistake.

Second run, again, too round and I was sore from the rough
ride, no warm up for Friday's race and from Thursday's 4
practice runs.  It was my body, not the skis the held me back.

Again, I'm guessing (and I'm usually very close on this kind
of estimation) I left a second on the hill from my top form.

I won the second run by a considerable margin in my
class/Division, but that's just for my personal satisfaction,
we all know that the first run is usually it at the Championships.  
Rarely does the second run offer a "move up" opportunity.  

Had I to do it over again what would I do different?

Get a warm up run in, one way or another.  Being that they
opened the chair at 8:30 and our first runs were at 9:30, by
the time we got our equipment up and staged, got our inspection
run, there simply was no time for a warm up run.

So I don't forget, with the new chair, Christie's Express, the
turn around is considerably quicker and we discovered a run
right at the cut off road to the See Me Start that is the perfect
warm up run.

I would suggest that Steamboat opens the chair at 8 for the 9:30
racers giving everyone amble time to get to the slopes, huck their
gear to the start areas, get in two inspection runs and at least one
warm up run.

So for me, especially with my situation, that one warm up run would
have been golden, literally, IMHO.

The races were run on time, no undue delays, and the staff worked
like clock work.  Not a negative thing to say about anything other
than the parking situation.  For a guy with a broken ankle it was a
real problem.  I did get it handled after a tense phone call by the
assistant to the President.  I got a spot that got me within a reasonable
distance to the slope.  Since I assume there were many people with
similar or worse issues, the parking situation really needs to be
addressed.

Other than that, perfect.

Back to the course.  Day one the course was set down the skier's
left side of the run with the Green course snugged right up to the
B Fencing half way down the course at the beginning of the Aspen
stand.  Again, the set was good and no problems, at least from
my POV on set, offsets, vertical distance and margins of the run
itself.

Day 2

We ended up parking in the underground parking.  The walk was
ridiculous for me, carrying our start/finish bags, two pair of skis
and a broken ankle.  This pretty much finished my day, seriously.

Putting that out of my mind, we got our stuff up to the hill and I
was surprised that at 11:15, that inspection had already started.

I knew we were behind the 8 ball at this point so we beat feet,
got our stuff staged and inspected the opposite course than we
ran the previous day.  Larry paying attention and making no
assumptions caught me at the bottom and told me that I'd be
running the yellow course again.  I simply didn't believe him,
couldn't be.  

He was right and he was confirmed right before we went off to
make our first and last warm up run.  We used that slope to
the skier's left of the cutoff cat trail to the See Me start.  It is
the perfect warm up hill.  Steeper than either See Me or See
Ya with lots of rollers.  I am glad I got one warm up run in as
by the time we got back to the top of Christies Express it was
12:15 and clearly no time for another warm up or another
inspection run.

Had I to do it all over again I would have anticipated the very
long walk from the underground parking (that took at least 15
minutes) with the load I had to getting on the chair and would
get there early enough to make two warm up runs and inspect
both courses.

The set on day two was just a bit more off set than day 1, but
in the ball park.  Looking at the times I'm guessing between the
set and
moving the course over to the skier's right side of the run, it was
about a second slower than day 1.  It worked out that way for me
and all the guys in my division so I'm guessing a fair appraisal of
the situation.

We did not have any new snow so we were on consistent hard snow
but was a bit more edgable then Thursday's training, not much.  In
other words, perfect racing snow.

We had sunlight and quite frankly I was surprised and how much
more terrain there was than I felt or saw on training day or day 1
racing.

We all knew about the "Table Top" roller at the third gate, but there
were two more rollers on the course, especially just past half way
and one about the 5th gate from the finish.

On day two, due to the orientation of the course set, the Yellow
course had a more difficult finish and the 4th to last gate had a
larger offset than the same gate on the Green course.  

On my run, fortunately, I saw this coming about a gate and a
half above and knew I was in trouble.  As stated elsewhere, I
have no idea how I made it.  Tactically I let my line relax or belly
out right above the offset then made a very quick cross-under
and chopped off the third to last gate, basically crashed right
through it.   Saved the run but a BIG mistake.  My guess, is this
was a half second line mistake.  

I didn't check the score board, didn't hear my time, just knew that
was not the run I needed.  So on a lark, I decided to change to my
175s just to change things up for the second run.  Unlike the day
before there were some decent delays, apparently from other racers
having issues at the same section in the yellow course.  Larry, as
smart as ever, took off and got a warm up run in between the two
heats.  I made a strategic error and stayed on top  instead of cycling
around.  That was a big error as I believe had I stayed loose there
was an opportunity to pick up time on the second run.

The 175s handled the second course, which was quite a bit rougher
than I felt yesterday's second run was, quite well.  Again, I believe
I could have taken it more direct and cut time off, perhaps not faster
than my first run but right in the neighborhood.  That would not have
made any difference in the outcome, however so in the final analysis,
no matter.  If I had that run to do over again I would have stayed
with the 180s and taken it right at the course as I had nothing to
lose.  What was clear was that the bottom half of the Green course
was an easier set so if I nailed the top I could of easily kept it tight
and carried by speed through the finish.  Just bad tactics and strategy
on my part.

In summary, the skis may not have been a huge advantage based
on the fairly open course set, relatively steep slope and very hard
snow but they were definitely competitive with any other ski on the
hill.  Would I race the skis again in retrospect, absolutely, without a
doubt.  A 21 M race stock ski would work fine for the hill and the set
but I don't think skier to skier you could take the 21m as direct as
you can with the Progressor 9, either the 180 or the 175.

That's the report.  Next year, if I go back to Steamboat, and at this
point, depending on where the Master Nationals are and timing, I
will probably be back, I will most definitely be on the Progressor 9
and will have both the 175 and 180 with me but would expect to run
the 180 based on the sets I saw this year.

"Developing Faster Racers is MY Passion"



ModernSkiRacing



NASTAR Race Record / MASTERS Race Record


#19 Rob

Rob
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Posted 31 March 2008 - 06:03 AM

Thanks Gary for the race report, I hope to be there next year as well with the Progressors in hand. Assuming I do not have shoulder issues I hope to give Pat Moore a run for his money, I think the Progressors will be faster than the Elans!!!!!!!!! To you Pat.

#20 patmoore

patmoore
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Posted 31 March 2008 - 12:43 PM

QUOTE (Rob @ Mar 31 2008, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Gary for the race report, I hope to be there next year as well with the Progressors in hand. Assuming I do not have shoulder issues I hope to give Pat Moore a run for his money, I think the Progressors will be faster than the Elans!!!!!!!!! To you Pat.

Hi Rob.  Just got off the phone with our Fischer rep and I'm getting a demo pair of the 9+.  Looking forward to making comparisons!

Pat